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# A rambling chat - Kobi Leins
- URL: https://katecarruthers.com/a-rambling-chat-kobi-leins-episode-11/
- Published: 2023-09-03T04:37:12.000Z
- Updated: 2026-05-15T00:31:56.000Z
- Author: Kate Carruthers
- Tags: ai, #kcarruthers-me-com, data, privacy, Data Revolution Podcast, #Migrated-1776594221493, #wp, #wp-post, #Import 2026-04-19 20:23, #Import 2026-06-26 08:45

![Kobi Leins](https://datarevolutiontech.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/2021-kobi-leins-profile-pic.jpg?w=300)

Kobi Leins

To be fair it has been a hellish month at work so I decided to do a low key chat with a mate because I'm tired. This time my guest is Kobi Leins.

> "**Dr Kobi Leins (GAICD)* is a global expert in AI, international law and governance. Leins provides strategic advice on selection, implementation and operation of technologies to drive business edge; creates systems for organisational and delegation of ownership for complex systems and data; and uses international benchmarking to analyse opportunities and risks in face of rapidly changing legal and governance landscapes and data literacy and public sentiment.* *Leins is an Honorary Senior Fellow of King’s College, London; Advisory Board Member of the Carnegie AI and Equality Initiative; Member of Standards Australia as a technical expert on the International Standards Organisation’s work on AI Standards; Affiliate, ARC Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making and Society; and former Non-Resident Fellow of the United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research. Leins is the author of* [*New War Technologies and International Law:*](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/new-war-technologies-and-international-law/D74B3EBE395B68B912B016EBFDA7D275?ref=katecarruthers.com)  
> [*The Legal Limits to Weaponising Nanomaterials, Cambridge University Press (2022)*](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/new-war-technologies-and-international-law/D74B3EBE395B68B912B016EBFDA7D275?ref=katecarruthers.com)*.*" [Kobi Leins](https://kobileins.com/?ref=katecarruthers.com)

We have known each other for years online and finally met IRL recently on panel and got on so well we decided to have a chat here. It had been a hard week for both of us so, armed with a glass of wine and a large dinosaur mug of Yorkshire Gold tea (it really is the best tea and I have no affiliation with this brand), we could not decide on a topic. Hence this episode is what it is 🤷‍♀️

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6NIIqb8BHxx2FcSMG9pEjv

### Links to things we mentioned

- [Amusing Ourselves to Death](https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/?&%5Fencoding=UTF8&tag=kcar08-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=7c164cc2ca9f05ae1f4200a1cc00c8b3&camp=1789&creative=9325&ref=katecarruthers.com) \- Neil Postman
- [2023 DoD Manual Revision – To Shoot, or Not to Shoot . . . Automation and the Presumption of Civilian Status](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/shoot-not-shoot-automation-presumption-civilian-status/?ref=katecarruthers.com)
- [Elon Musk’s Shadow Rule: How the U.S. government came to rely on the tech billionaire—and is now struggling to rein him in.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule?ref=katecarruthers.com)
- [Acoustic Jurisprudence: Listening to the Trial of Simon Bikindi](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/acoustic-jurisprudence-9780198735809?ref=katecarruthers.com)
- [The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steven Hassan: Chinese Netizen’s Protests and Freedom of Mind as a Human Right with Matthew Bywater](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chinese-netizens-protests-and-freedom-of-mind-as/id1603773245?i=1000625110867&ref=katecarruthers.com)

### A picture of my current fave t-shirt

Yes I do wear this t-shirt a lot!

![](https://datarevolutiontech.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/img_3506.jpg?w=300)

My current favourite t-shirt